We all know the story…Florida and Michigan were to hold their primaries on Super Tuesday along with a bunch of other states. Mind you, they agreed to this 18 months ago. However Florida and Michigan wanted to go before Super Tuesday.
In response, the Democratic National Committee decided to strip Florida and Michigan of their delegates at the convention. Perhaps a bit draconian some would argue, but none the less, Howard Dean decided to punish the states for going against the will of the party.
Today, Howard Dean is backing off his punishment and wants to seat them at the convention. He wants the state parties to submit a plan which fit in with the DNC’s rules. This way everyone is happy! Hooray!
I’m sorry but as a child I was brought up to believe that if you broke the rules you were punished. Florida and Michigan broke the rules and they were punished. Why must democrats insist on making everyone happy all the time? The party structure is falling apart already, we have to face it. However, if Dean does this, it will be the final nail in the coffin of the democratic party structure.
Super-delegates were just a small piece of the puzzle. We see that this party is flawed. Howard Dean is a man of great foresight and he should be able to fix this, I am very confident in his ability to do so. However, allowing Florida and Michigan to vote in these elections will set a dangerous precedent. I won’t see why New York shouldn’t move up it’s primary to January in 2012, I mean our delegates are going to count anyways. We wouldn’t want to “disenfranchise” anyone now would we. Give me a break!
WAKE UP DEMOCRATS! We have to realize that there are rules. If states follow them, they should be rewarded. Maybe with delegates at a convention. If they break them, they should be punished, maybe by not having delegates at a convention.
What incentive will other states have to follow the DNC rules if they’ll be given delegates anways? This is the Democratic party’s last stand. If they don’t stand firm here, then we’ll see the end of the party shortly. Unless there is a thorough overhaul of the system.
No one wants to see a repeat of the 1968 convention, although how fun would that be to watch? Can we please come to our sense here. If you break the rules, you have to live with the consequences.
19 Responses to “Michigan and Florida… the bastard children of the DNC”
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March 9, 2008 at 3:17 pm
Think about it this way: the millions of people who voted in Michigan and Florida didn’t have a say in whether their party broke the rules. Why should they not get to vote? I find it ironic that those who call superdelegates undemocratic want to disenfranchise voters in Michigan and Florida. Their votes should count just as much as mine and yours.
There needs to be reforms to change how the primary schedule is decided, but it’s too late for that now. Seating the delegations won’t split the party apart, not seating them will. If Florida and Michigan are not seated in some form, after a re-vote or what have you, there may be a riot not in the streets–but on the convention floor itself. The will of the people in those two states is just as important as any other, and the voters deserve to be treated with dignity.
March 9, 2008 at 9:48 pm
The following is two paragraphs I saw entitled “Howard Dean’s Reign of Error,” by Matt Cooper. It pretty much explains my view that the sanctions were a mistake and now we are reeping the reprocussions of it
Dean’s sanction was to deny seats to all the delegates elected in those states. This was a huge mistake. The Republicans, by contrast, stripped their line-cutters of half their delegates which seems like a much more appropriate sanction. If my kid cuts on line at a cafeteria, I won’t buy him dessert but I will let him eat lunch.
The consequences of such a draconian sanction are now obvious. No one in their right mind thinks that the Democrats can simply not have two of the nation’s largest–and electorally pivotal–states go unrepresented in the selection of the next president. If Democrats believe in one thing it’s that there should be no more Florida 2000s, no more disfranchisement, no more court battles and messes. But Dean’s ubersanction has led us into an insane replay of Florida as farce. Dean supporters wills ay that his 50-state strategy of putting DNC resources into the reddest of states helped Democrats recapture Congress. But surely that victory had much more to do with the war and the mood of the country and the strong candidates recruited by the Schumer-Emmanuel-run campaign committees in Congress and not the DNC. Now the party has less money than the GOP and an insane rules fight not seen since the days of the McGovern commission. That’s not exactly change we can believe in.
March 9, 2008 at 10:15 pm
The DNC may not accept the citizens of Florida & Michigan’s voice at there convention but come November they can’t suppress there voice any longer. I think Florida & Michigan citizens will at that time make very clear there voice! As will there fellow citizens all across this country who believe in a citizens right to have there voice heard and there vote count. The DNC will regret having gotten away with a bad & illegal rule that is in conflict with the constitution of the United States. Our government leaders may not want to take on the issue because they are all part of a party but we the people know wrong when we see it and come November we the people will let the DNC know they should have counted the Florida & Michigan votes and chosen delegates in a open and fair election that was conducted by the government.
March 9, 2008 at 10:36 pm
I think it’s also worth noting that none of the candidates campaigned in Florida, and only Dennis Kucinich and HIllary Clinton were on the ballot in Michigan
March 9, 2008 at 10:36 pm
Well now,dont any of you listen,it was the republicans who origina made this a night mare for the democrats
.If they use their head the winner should be Hillary in Florida since both were on the ticket,Hillary showed up after the vote and Obamaaa ran a tv ad before the vote which he wasnt suposse to do,and than just spilit MS.How hard is that.
March 9, 2008 at 10:44 pm
Why am I the only one who is tired of having Presidential elections being screwed up by Florida. ONCE IS ENOUGH!!
Hmmm…. the election will be decided by a lawsuit in Florida… hmmmm… I just can’t put my finger on it…. we should count all the voters in Florida… hmmm why is that so familiar to me?
It makes me sad to think that because the governors of their respective states wanted to call out the DNC to a game of chicken that now their citizens have to pay for another election. This is disgusting, the party system is flawed.
People who have been in this party for so long, read: Mrs. Clinton, have learned how to use this flawed system to their advantage.
NO MORE! Let us cast off the Floridian chains of oppression to which we are tied. Florida screwed up an election for us once already, they’re going for it again. This is a waste of money! Now, I didn’t say Howard Dean’s idea of getting rid of all their delegates was right…
I did say, that we live in a society which has rules, if you break those rules there should be consequences. If Florida and Michigan are allowed to gain ALL of there delegates back in this new primary (i’m not opposed to this mail in primary, just the cost) then what is the point of setting up these dates months in advance?
This is just another reason why we should have a national primary. For all you people out there who say I’m too harsh, too bad. Don’t be a pansy.
We have rules, they knew that if they broke the rules, this was a possibility. They decided to tempt fate anyways.
March 9, 2008 at 10:53 pm
Neither Governor Granholm or Governor Crist are saying that the tax payers will be paying for this. It appears now that the party will attempt to raise soft money from contributors in some form in order to hold a re-vote.
Also, I’m not necessarily opposed to holding a national primary, but what sounds better to me is the idea of holding regional primaries, with each region taking a turn every four years in being first. That way candidates could still do grass-roots campaigning in the primary states and states won’t be jumping over each other to try and get it first. It’ll be difficult to get either one of those things done–it’ll take a national effort.
By the way guys, this blog (specifically this post) are getting national attention! Because CNN uses wordpress for their political ticker, this came up as a related post to one of their news stories. http://edition.cnn.com/2008/POLITICS/03/09/michigan.florida/index.html (click on “From the blogs” and you’ll see it.) Pretty cool, eh?
Welcome to all of new people reading this, and stick around! This blog is getting better all the time.
March 9, 2008 at 11:07 pm
We live in a country of Freedom of Speech. By not allowing Michigan’s and Florida’s citizens to be heard violates the citizens rights to choose. This is not Communism and this is Not Dictatorship Howard Dean. The States that complained to you Mr. Dean about Mi. and Fl. Moving up the primary up should fork the bill on Mi. and Fl. revote or Just reinstate our delegates! Even though I’m a Republican I’m writing all over to make sure Our citizens voices are heard. Next time LET’S ALL VOTE ON SUPER TUESDAY. That way every state has equal opportunity to vote on ALL who put their Names on the ballot. The majority of candidates withdrew before Super Tuesday. It’s not fair to states who vote later not to have the same choices of candidates as the early states. This Election means we need a change. In 4 years I want every state vote on the SAME DAY. No state shoud be discriminated against. Shame on you Mr. Dean for your treatment of our Citizens in their time of need. I’m from Michigan our state has the Highest unemployment rate of the nation. Instead of punishing our citizens why don’t you show compassion to us and find way to help our state get back on it’s feet again. I don’t want any other state to go through this. Let’s put aside differences and find ways to get Michigan and this nation back on track economically.
March 9, 2008 at 11:38 pm
No way! The rules were set in place and these states decided to ignore them. They violated party rule and should have to deal with the consequences. What kind of precedence does this set for the future? The DNC is the national party, and if a candidate chooses to run for presidency on behalf of them, they should honor their rules and regulations. As far as I’m concerned, Hillary can run on an independent ticket and take her supporters with her. She does not represent the #1 DNC principle, and they should “denounce and reject” her as a contender under their ticket. She is trying to usurp the DNC and this should not be tolerated. Howard Dean is absolutely correct in taking his stance. The states of Michigan and Florida gambled and lost. To do ANYTHING other than seat the delegates as a 50-50 split will reward them for bad behavior. The only way to democratically solve their tantrums for disobeying the rules is to have their votes count yet remain non-influential. No-revote! It’s a waste of time and money (on behalf of the candidates, sponsors, and voters). These states must be reprimanded in some way, and to allow them to re-vote will create a backlash among all the other states who followed the rules. A re-vote will be unfair and undemocratic. Seat the votes 50-50 so that they will have no influence. This will preserve the DNC’s integrity and allow the states to have a say during the convention, and this my friends is a generous offer. Take it or leave it.
It’s not worth disenfranchising millions of other voters throughout the country, especially the young and newly registered voters.
Sorry Florida and Michigan, but this is a case where the sum trumps the parts. Florida will most likely vote republican in the general election and Michigan will vote democrat anyway. I say the end justifies the means, because anything otherwise will most definitely turn away the young and new voters, independents and cross-over republicans- yet alone the Black voters. They represent at least half the Democratic voters, whereas Florida and Michigan represent about 5-15% of the democratic voters. Is it worth losing 50+% of the voters or 5-15%? That is the ultimate question.
March 9, 2008 at 11:49 pm
“The only way to democratically solve their tantrums for disobeying the rules is to have their votes count yet remain non-influential.”
If their votes aren’t influential, how is that making them count? And how is that democracy? Seems like a contradiction to me.
March 10, 2008 at 5:13 pm
I agree with Stephen. How would the other states be disenfranchised by a re-vote in Michigan and Florida?
Also, nobody is talking about the bigger picture, if we disenfranchise the voters of Michigan and Florida, how can we expect them to react in November? Florida has gone Republican in 8 out of the last 10 presidential elections and Kerry only won Michigan by a 51-48 margin in 2004. You people need to wake up and swallow your pride, let the states vote, and count the results as they are after the vote is held
March 10, 2008 at 5:15 pm
and Richard…I dont understand what validates your point that allowing Florida and Michigan democrats to vote would cost the Democrats 50% of its electorate…that sounds a bit eccentric to me!
March 10, 2008 at 5:16 pm
and chris…if you feel the party system is flawed, why dont you just endorse Ralph Nader and cost us another election…thats the road your going down if Michigan and Florida dont vote
March 10, 2008 at 11:21 pm
Every third party candidate had more votes than the difference between Bush v Gore, so blaming Nader is stupid
March 10, 2008 at 11:57 pm
Ian, if I feel the party system is flawed I’m not going to give up on it. I want to bring out the problems so we can address them. Ralph Nader makes about as many good points as my dog does. Just because people don’t agree with you, doesn’t mean they’re wrong.
Have you ever thought about sitting down with people and talking out things. Maybe you’ll realize that you share more ideas that you might think. I’m sure we can all agree that Ralph Nader is detrimental to the party.
What I want to say is, what do you tell all the states who followed the DNC rules? We can’t allow Michigan and Florida to hold the DNC hostage like this.
Best possible case, is seating the delegates 50/50 so they’re counted, but they don’t really make a difference, and go to teach states that if they break the rules it does not pay.
You’re disenfranchising other states because now Florida and Michigan play a very big role in the election. Which is what they wanted in the first place. Why are we rewarding states for bad behavior?
It is you sir, who has to swallow his pride, you’re going to have to realize that we have to set a precedent. If it costs Florida then so be it.
I’m confident that with Howard Dean’s 50 state plan, and Obama’s big wins in purple states (not fully democratic or republican, but down the middle) will cancel out Florida. Besides, Kerry… really? Was he the best the democrats could do in 2004?
Kerry winning Florida is big, because if that guy can win Florida, then any democrat can.
March 11, 2008 at 9:33 pm
Kerry didnt win Florida…
and what purple states will Obama bring into play that will surmount Florida?
And with Howard Dean’s 50 state plan…the DNC has managed now to raise less money and have less Cash on hand than the RNC…what a great plan…
March 11, 2008 at 9:37 pm
the only somewhat purple state he has won are Missouri and Illinios – Virginia, Georgia, Alabama, Mississippi, Louisianna, North Dakota, Utah, Colorado, Kansas, Idaho, Wyoming, Alaska, and South Carolina are all states that are not going to vote Democrat regardless
March 12, 2008 at 12:05 am
Let me see if i understand you…my friend Stephen C helped explain this to me:
Hillary Clinton has one thing going for her that Barack Obama does not, she wins the big states: Texas, California, New York
Bigger is better, right?
These states are critical for the Democrats to win the general election this November right? To be president you have to win the big states, and she’s proven she can do it.
Barack Obama has a big problem here, sure he’s winning the small states of Washington, Maryland and Illinois.
Hillary is winning all the big states (Rhode Island!)
And EVERYBODY KNOWS that if you win the big states in the party primary you automatically win them in the general election.
I didn’t know that the Democrat who won the Texas primary went on to win Texas in the general election in EVERY one of the last 8 elections. (Except 7 of them)
Therefore, Hillary will naturally win Texas in the general election. (Unless there’s a republican candidate)
Now I’m not saying Hillary doesn’t face any challenges, after all John McCain won Texas in the Republican primary, which means by the same logic: McCain will ALSO win Texas in the general election.
As for the states neither Hillary nor McCain won, I assume they will simply cease to exist. (Huckabee states will be raptured)
Now the Obama maniacs are saying “But Obama won 26 states to her 16, he’s leading in the popular vote.”
BUT
It’s not how many votes you get, it’s the geographic boundaries that contain those votes. Getting 10 million votes in one state is way better than getting 12 million votes split between two states. (Especially if they’re Florida and Michigan)
So if Obama wants to compete, he’s going to have to win some big states right?
There’s only one big state left, Pennsylvania!
So his only chance is to make big states out of the small states he’s already won.
Take the southeast:
It’s cute that he won South Carolina, Alabama, Georgia, Louisiana and Mississippi but it would actually MATTER if he had won the state: South Georgiabamassippiama
South Georgiabamassippiama has almost 2 million more people than Texas, he could follow that up with a big win creating Illikansasourinebriowa.
Illikansasourinebriowa has 78,000 more square miles than Texas, and I think it might be his only chance.
Because it doesn’t matter if you’re ahead in delegates, it doesn’t matter if your ahead in popular votes only one thing really matters…. in the words of Gov Ed Rendell (D) PA – Clinton Supporter:
“If she wins Ohio, Texas, Pennsylvania, Michigan, Florida, on top of all the other big states she won, if she wins the key states that are going to decide the election, let’s go with our strongest hand”
The only thing that matters… is that people believe that’s a strong argument.
Some of you might know my friend, Stephen C.. his show is on Comedy Central at 11:30pm from Monday through Thursday. I actually repeated everything he said, I’m glad he could break it down for me like that. Thank you Stephen!
April 14, 2008 at 8:11 am
It doesnt make sense not giving citizens in florida and michigan a vote. As a citizen of michigan, i’m not directly resposible for any errors in the primary process. Stripping me of my vote is unnecessary.
, “allowing Florida and Michigan to vote in these elections will set a dangerous precedent”
….you’re a douchebag.